"Hell, even the Carnegie Deli, where Meg Ryan had her orgasm, closed.”-Yes the Carnegie is closed but the Meg Ryan scene from "When Harry Met Sally" took place in Katz’s which is still open. Wash it all down with an egg cream made with Fox’s U bet!
Harvey Leeds
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Meg Ryan's scene was shot at Katz's. I had a record store for 20 years 2 blocks away.
I an an Irish Jew, we knew our NYC delis better than we knew our Temple's.
Boiled Meat and Potatoes!
Stefan Prescott
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Meg Ryan had her orgasm at Katz's deli on the lower East side. (There was even a marker on the table where it happened -- don't know if it's still there. )
Cheers.
Robert Greer
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I love it when you take me home! Golds in Westport! My parents owned a little dress shop up the street.
Lizzz Kritzer
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Try Weiss in Las Vegas!
johnwmsfan
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Bob - this is GREAT! I’m a Westport CT resident, and Gold’s is definitely still holding the Jewish deli mantle. It just smells right in there, like a home draped in pastrami.
By the way, I don’t remember if I ever sent you this list I wrote, a ranking of Jewish foods. Still keeping that bagel and lox on top, despite its mainstreaming. Would love to hear your thoughts (turns out that there’s a really strong whitefish lobby out there that is not happy with me).
MY DEFINITIVE AND ABSOLUTELY CORRECT RANKING OF 40 JEWISH FOODS:
bit.ly/380NmYZ Thanks for the mouth-watering read!
Michael Wolfe
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Some of my great memories of my NYC dwelling Grandma have her standing and waiting on the elevated LIRR platform holding Zabars shopping bags filled with two days worth of deli meals. I now live in LA and there is nothing like getting a care package of Zabars bagels, schmear, farmer cheese of all flavors (remembering rum raisin), lox babka and the like. Deep memories and great food.
Kenneth Freundlich
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Did you see the article in Grub Street (NY Magazine's food blog): How New York’s Bagel Union Fought — and Beat — a Mafia Takeover.
www.grubstreet.com/2020/01/bagel-mafia-wars-local-338-union.html. One of the best lines is how the NY Times described the bagel in 1960, when they assumed people didn’t know what it was. The said “A bagel is an unsweetened doughnut with rigor mortis.” That should give you a chuckle.
Best,
Perry Resnick
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You're making us hungry, Bob. Next time you're in New York, you have to try Brooklyn Bagel. Don't let the name fool you, there are two in Manhattan, three in Queens, zero in Brooklyn. (go to the one in Chelsea, get there early or prepare for a wait)
bkbagel.com/bagels-near-me/ You can trust me on food, I'm the one who sent you the "real" Sloppy Joe's from NJ when you were laid up after the hospital a couple years back. Used to live in Santa Monica, now back in New York. We agree, Langer's has the best rye (and pastrami) anywhere.
Take care
Michael Schlesinger
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places. I recommend Sables and Kenny and Ziggys. Kenny for the chopped liver and get BELLY LOX from Sables. Beats Nova! I had ordered from another unnamed “Jewish” deli in the past. Total crap! Also tongue from Kenny’s is decent. Very hard to find. Also potato knishes are passable. Many other items available through Goldbelly. Only problem is shipping is expensive. Yes there are other types of delis. I remember a German deli in Queens where they sold “head cheese.”
As kids we would go in there just to see the pig eyeballs stuck in the cheese loaf.
Jay Glass
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The Carnegie Del was great and it’s absence is felt every time I’m in New York. I’d be remiss not to say that in my opinion the best bagel spot in New York - the best breakfast place anywhere really - is Barney Greengrass.
Matt Walt
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Katz’s is doing better than ever, thanks in part to the notoriety of that scene. Also, just down the street from there is Russ & Daughters appetizers who still sell the best lox, bagels and my favorite, herring in cream sauce.
And in New York there are even some new up and comers. If you get a chance, try a bagel from Tompkins Square bagels in the East Village. I’d put them up against Zabars any day of the week, especially Sunday which was the traditional breakfast day for bagels and lox in my household. And don’t forget the smoked whitefish.
Shelley Valfer
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When we moved from Vermont to NYC in 1960, to the Upper West Side, Zabar's was our local deli. That's all it was. Nobody made pilgrimages to it. Everyone knew Saul Zabar. I used to go over every Sunday morning to get bagels, cream cheese, and one bialy for my mom. We never imagined how it would grow. And grow. And grow. But even now, when I walk in the door, it smells the same!
Toby Mamis
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Going to Zabar’s, stocking up on supplies and trooping into Central Park to see the symphony is something everyone should experience in their lifetime. I used to go next door to H&H for the bagels tho if I’m being honest. RIP
Joshua Freni
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Love that! I feel that way about not just great Jewish deli food from Zabar's, but some others as well - fresh baguette's at any bakery in Paris, or the penne a la checca at La Buca di Ripetta near the Piazza di Populo, or a roast beef on Kimmelweck at Cole's in Buffalo.
Best,
John Boylan
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That is what I am FUCKIN talkin about! Carnegie closing is among the great heartbreaks of my life. Bill used to get linen napkins.
How do you feel about Canter’s?
Billy Cohen
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Hehehe. Awesome.
- josh nelson
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Zabar's is an obligatory stop for me up on the Upper West Side anytime I’m in NYC. I also love their knish!
Best,
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Hi Bob, I sent your email to several Jewish friends. Here is one reply .
To: Alan Segal
Alan,
Zabar's is a high-end appetizing store in the upper West Side of Manhattan. It has a mix of
Bagels, Babka, Rugelach, Coffee, Cheeses, Jams and Preserves, Smoked Fish, e.g., lox, baked salmon, Salami and Hot Dogs. Though the hot dogs and salami may be kosher, Zabar's is technically and religiously not kosher....cheese next meats!!! That certainly would not stop me from eating their on occasion, but it was quite out of the way from where I lived in Brooklyn where I could get all those specialty items at half to a third of the price that Zabar's charged.
In Brooklyn, where I lived, there was a kosher deli every 4 or 5 blocks. The hot pastrami and hot corned beef (kept in a steam box - always hot and juicy / jew-cy) was heaven to eat. The first time I ordered a hot pastrami sandwich in a supposed 'Jewish style' deli that also had swiss cheese, etc., in St. Louis - I was horrified to see them slice the pastrami and put it into a microwave to heat it (and kill it). Never again! Incidentally, I worked on weekends in a kosher deli while I went to Brooklyn College. It was a fantastic job...and I could eat as much as I wanted, and I did.
Bagels and lox were not sold in real kosher deli's. They were sold in 'appetizing' stores or bagel shops where the bagels were often baked round the clock and hot all day long. Have you ever had a bialy - a 'first cousin' of the bagel but completely different taste and texture...great.
Incidentally, bagels for the 'american goyishe taste' come from Peppridge Farms or Lenders. They are really white bread in a disguised bagel shape...no 'tam' (Yiddish for taste).. And about the water in NYC being responsible for a real bagel's great taste...when we visit out daughter and her family in the East Bay area outside of San Francisco, we go the a 'bagel bakery' in Walnut Creek, owned and operated by a Chinese family...and those bagels taste just like the ones I grew up with in Brooklyn.
St. Louis has poor facsimiles of real bagels so I found a bagel place that I refer to as the 'best of the
worst'. Also, I can't get real tasty rugelach nor babkas in St. Louis.
Irwin Neufeld
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My wife grew up on the Upper West Side. My mother-in-law still lives there - on 79th and Broadway. She's almost 90. With the perils of old age quickly approaching, we're starting to talk about moving her closer to our home in Boston. To be honest, however, I would mourn the loss of Zabars in our lives. Every couple of months, we treat ourselves to a delicious infusion of bagels, lox and cream cheese -- the transcendent trio ...the holy (and hole-y) trinity of Jewish Food. As good as their mail order service might be, it's even better when you get the bagels fresh from the oven. And the cheese deals! And the classic announcements over the PA system! Don't know if I can give up the Zabars Live experience. A home health aid might be a better option...?
Bob Melvin
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Brent’s is my favorite deli. Their bagels unfortunately might be from western bagel but that is their only negative. I like Noah’s bagels better.
You most likely already know of Bea’s Bakery in Tarzana. If not, u might like their Jewish style baked goods.
Take care,
Tracy Weber
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Zabar’s! Just say the name and your mouth starts watering. The first time we went, Michael Klenfner took us there in the early 70’s. Sharon and I were visiting from the west coast (Columbia Records had flown me in to meet all the New York movers and shakers). Michael bought a ton of everything and we brought it back to his and Carol’s apartment where we had an enormous breakfast feast with them, Rick Dobbis, and Jonathan Coffino. Coming from California we’d never tasted Nova so good—hell, we’d never tasted cream cheese so good. And the SIZE of the bagels?!! Not like that skinny little cracker you get in LA.
We’ve been in New York since 1980 when I came here to head up Columbia rock promotion and we’ve been going to Zabar’s ever since. Now we live on Long Island, but Sharon goes into the city every three weeks to bring home the goods. They know her at the appetizer counter. She’s greeted, “Hi Sharon, how you doin'?” And they start slicing the Nova—they know her usual. Another fave is Zabar’s Russian coffee cake, yum! And their baked cheese with walnuts and raisons is to die for.
Earlier today she announced that tomorrow night’s dinner will be lox and bagels—and you know from where!
Thanks for the write up—it put a big smile on our faces.
PS. Sharon says, with all due respect, referring to Zabar’s as a deli is like referring to Macy’s in Herald Square as just a department store. She calls it the Mecca of Jewish delights. ;-)
PPS. I would have eaten the other cinnamon rugelach.
Paul Rappaport
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You don’t go to any W. Bagel location except the main bakery up in Van Nuys off Sepulveda. It’s where they make the dough which is frozen and sent out to the various locations. But there they bake them and they are Fresh and usually hot due to the volume they sell there. You get a dozen and then break them down into bags of four each. Freeze them for use later. You thaw naturally. Only takes about 15 minutes. Never micro. They are as good as you’ll get in LA. If they don’t measure up, you’d better move to NYC.
John Brodey
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Bob, my bubbelah,
When are you moving to the Upper West Side of Manhattan so you can walk to Zabar's ?
Can't wait for your next column when you discuss the geographical differences in pizza.
L' chayim,
Stuart Taubel
(former Upper West Side resident for 30+ years)
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Russ and Daughters. That is all.
Bill Wharton
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My father used bring home fresh sliced rye bread every Friday night from Parnes' Bakery in West Orange....No one was allowed to touch it until he took both ends for himself...If he was in a particularly good mood he'd give me and my brother one of the ends to split between us...
Thanks for the memories!!!
Jay Rosenberg
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Bob, this put a huge smile on my face. “YES” I found myself shouting over and over. You nailed it. There are few things as exquisite as a fresh bagel with cream cheese. I’m glad you took Tom up on his offer to send a new package. :)
Amanda Schuon
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This Goy’s mouth is watering.....
HugoB
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My father passed away in November. We live in Manhattan, and well, we got three boxes of Zabar's rugelach, bagels, and what not from friends. And we only sat shiva one night (he was 96). There weren't that many people who knew him and who were still alive to come visit. We gave all three boxes away, because like your Mom, when we cater our holidays, the food often comes from Zabars, so while its thoughtful to deliver the box, it's not that unusual to eat it, for us.
Zabar's rugelach is good, but on the east side, we do have Orwasher's bakery, which makes, among many other great products, great rye bread, fresh stuffed jelly donuts, which are stuffed before your eyes, and fantastic rugelach.
I'm not so sure the next generation will abandon baked salmon salad, whitefish, pickled herring in cream sauce with onions, chubs, and whitefish salad. My daughters know and like some of that food, and now their goyische men like it too. Russ and Daughters has been going for generations, and now has the original store, an outpost in the Jewish Museum and a sit down restaurant.
By the way, Meg's scene was in Katz's on Houston Street, which now on a Saturday night has a 30+ minute wait just to get in, and the line is all hipsters. If you watch the scene and can remember what the Carnegie and Katz's look like, you'll know its Katz's. But they don't have "appetizing" or "dairy." Just meat, like knoblach, kosher salami, hot dogs, corned beef but the pastrami is fantastic.
Marc Jacobson
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Lol.
My place is at 89th and Broadway. Zabars, as you know, 80th and B'way. Had their chicken pot pie tonight. It's the best in the city. :)
John Hummer
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I read this story last night. Very interesting. My friends dad owns a deli in South Jersey (Red Bank), he said he was a member of the 338 back in the day when I shared this with him -
www.grubstreet.com/2020/01/bagel-mafia-wars-local-338-union.html David Rubin
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Real old school New Yorkers (frankly, Upper West Siders) would buy their Nova Scotia salmon at Zabar’s and saunter across the street to H&H Bagels for NYC’s finest bagel, an operation sadly now defunct, though the name (not the quality) lives on via an asset sale. Then there’s Barney Greengrass and Murray’s Sturgeon Shop, all situated literally blocks from Zabar’s and one another. And of course there’s Fine & Shapiro on W72nd, where they still greet me like the great customer I once was, even though I moved to the west Coast 4 years ago. Truly one of the best things about NYC that most of the country neither understands or has ever experienced.
Stuart K. Marvin
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Long time reader, first time writing you. Given your rapturous appreciation of a good bagel, I thought you might enjoy this poem by my grandmother, Alma Denny, (Denenholz) who died at 96 in 2003, having been a poet and writer her whole life.
Thanks for your work.
Joshua Popenoe
To Butter A Bagel
To butter a bagel
You need to finagle
Just to inveigle
The slithering spread
To the edge of the bread,
Avoiding the hole
Of this crisp Jewish roll
Lest globs of goo land
In the palm of your hand.
If you want to add extras
You'd better be dexterous
And nab the stray blocks
Of cream cheese and lox
That fall through the middle
Of this no-middle vittle.
--Alma Denny
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We have just what you’re looking for in the last Jewish neighborhood in The Bronx
Next time you’re in town
You me and DG.
You’ll love me for it.
Neil Lasher
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Verve sent Bettye a Zabar’s basket for Xmas.
The cinammon rugelach were fucking KILLER!
Kevin Kiley
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When I moved to Orange, CT in 1979 to start work at St Raphael’s Hospital, we bought Marvin Lender’s “starter home”. Marvin and brother Murray ran the business that was started by their father, Harry.
One of Marvin’s daughters landed a job as a page at NBC studios in NY where the Letterman show was taped. I was able to attend a taping of the show and, as a musician, I was blown away by the World’s Most Dangerous Band.
Marvin has always been a generous philanthropist donating time and money to many Jewish causes including the multi million dollar JCC in Woodbridge, CT.
Jonathan Schneider
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Try the Rye bread from Nate & Al's. double baked bliss. The real deal
Jef Briss
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It’s the best... I’m a goi from Bakersfield but spent the last 15 yrs. here enjoying the Yiddish cuisine of NY. I can never leave now... how did I ever survive on the west coast without Zabar, Russ and Greengrass...? the best stuff on earth!
All the best,
Chadd Barksdale
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Bob, when you're in NY, Fairway, Bwy & 74th has a wider and better selection of smoked salmon than Zabar's. Gold's is pretty weak, but is probably the best you can do in CT. Julius Gold introduced Paul Newman to a food wholesaler named David Kalmann who in turn hooked Newman up with Stew Leonard. Newman had planned to market the dressing as a sort of high-end luxury item in an expensive-looking foo-foo bottle; Leonard threw numbers at him, convincing him to dress it down and enable a 99 cent retail price, with historic results. Gold sued years later and lost. Paul Lanning
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The end of the loaf. In Iowa we call it the heel.
30 years ago there was the Krispy Krust bakery in Des Moines - made wonderful pumpernickel rye. And there was Fishel’s Deli. Both long gone and sorely missed, though many kosher markets have sprung up since.
Paul Walker
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A doc you might be interested in, In Search of Israeli Cuisine.
www.amazon.com/Search-Israeli-Cuisine-Michael-Solomonov/dp/B071GW5G7F Pamela Arnold
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OMG - as a Jewish girl who grew up in New Jersey in the 70’s and lined up for fresh well done bagels and whitefish at Tabatchnick’s on Sunday, spent 13 year in the city - worked in PR at VH1 and John Sykes said in my promotion announcement memo to take me to my favorite Barney Greengrass to congratulate me (I had been introduced to it when I sat with Shep Gordon at the US Open and he brought a big bag of Barney Greengrass), moved to Greenwich and suffered through my raising my children with no Jewish deli and now spend a good deal of time with my boyfriend at his house in Compo Beach near GOLD’S DELI!!!
Needless to say he and I had a great laugh reading your email today.
You are the best Bob. Here’s to a scheamer of cream cheese on a bialy, a LEO and a cup of borscht at Barney Greengrass!!
Renee Koblentz Litt
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Fyi, this place has the best bagels in LA, albeit Montreal style rather than New York
www.buellersbagels.com/ Alan Swyer
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yes a bagel and a shmear...bliss pure bliss...and don't get me started on rugelach.
"The Jewish Food Test":
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqYGGqTC_Us Michael Rosenblatt
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Thankfully, we still have at least two or three decent delis in Philadelphia. And they are totally unrelated to that “cream cheese” that has nothing to do with our fair town.
If you’re ever jonesing for good pickled tomatoes in NYC give these guys a try:
www.pickleguys.com/ Or just break down and do a mail order. Not as cheap as they were in days of yore, but worthy nevertheless.
Peace out,
Alex de Soto
Philadelphia, PA
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Bravo Bob! WTF good is living if you can’t enjoy things that give you pleasure? No one's getting out alive anyway! Enjoy your life while you’re living because who gives a shit after that.
Best to you and Felice!
Robby Scharf
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Katz deli is still my go to for Pastrami in NYC. I crave it the minute I arrive into town.
My friend used to live across the street when she first moved to the city from LA. We got to know the meat cutters well, they loved that we were two funny Jewish girls from LA. We’d order a pound of meat and they’d always give us extra simply because we made them smile and tipped well.
I still love that place and it’s always crowded.
Maybe I’ll try Langer’s one of these days.
Sasha Dodds
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Langers bread comes from Fred’s bakery on Robertson-classic pastrami, fantastic bread.
Try the rye from Bea’s off Reseda and the chopped liver at Marv’s attached to Bea’s. But then again you’re off bread, but hopefully not chopped liver.
Tragic, but the bagel scene’s f’ed up in LA. Some say it’s the water, but that ain’t it.
To me one of your most memorable essays was about pickled herring years ago.
Fred Ansis
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Glad you enjoyed.
Just before NYE, we ventured from Queens (Where my fave deli, Ben’s Best in Rego Park (which was featured on Diners, Dives and Drive-in’s just over 9 years ago — and the segment still plays) closed Father’s Day 2018, to Harold’s in Edison, NJ. When you visit NYC, it is well worth it to visit (just over the Outerbridge Crossing from Staten I.). We were one of three couples. Just say the portions required left overs. The Corned Beef and Pastrami I shared is my wife (allegedly for two, served five plus after packaging the leftovers for the next day to share also with her dad; the Potato Knish she took home for her dad probably serves 4-6.
There are the Ben’s Deli chain on Long Island but not in league with Harold’s. Ditto Katz on the Houston Street on the Lower East Side.
As for Bagels (& Bialys), I can get a decent bagel at a place called Slim’s in Little Neck.
Corey Bearak
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The way you described biting into that bagel with a
schmear, and it’s bringing you back to your childhood, is the same feeling it get when I put on Rubber Soul or Truth by Jeff Beck.
Let’s not forget Bialys. In East New York Brooklyn, we had a Bagel / Bialy shop around the corner from Food Fair on Linden Blvd. Bialys had chopped onions & poppy seeds in the middle. Cream cheese or butter went well with Bialys . Jelly Rings. Yesss. Let’s not forget chocolate covered Halavah . The closest I’m gonna get to an “Appetizing“ store is Whole Foods here in Vegas. Ha !!! Peace & Nova Bob Ps. Just looked @ Zabars online. Ordering the Zabars Morning Basics. 1 day shipping. Wooohooo. Oh no , New York Bakery Bundle
Alan Childs
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As a New Yorker, non Jewish, who has always lived and worked with/around Jewish people and who sends friends and relatives Zabar boxes regularly, I am thrilled to read your review. It was a nail biter until you bit into the bagel.
Laura Savini Webb
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Love bagel and deli tales! Who doesn’t love a good deli? Went to Katz’s in NY and had a corned beef on rye (expensive) and was very disappointed in the rye bread. Too soft and downright mushy with the added mustard. Great vibe but disappointing sandwich.
Bill Tibbs
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I love bagels, there is a great bagel shop in Las Vegas, been around for years and is not exactly in a great area..old part of Vegas by The Westgate ex Hilton. Bagels and their chopped liver, nova and whitefish are the dogs danglies. It is called Bagelmania, does a roaring trade and I heard they are moving to a new part of Vegas nearer the Convention Center and safer part of town it’s not over yet. I will be there again this Sunday.
Kindest,
Sir Harry Cowell
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You and I must be cousins!! This offering of yours literally spells my name. My late step brother lived around the corner from Zabes in the Village in the 70s and 80s. I’m surprised you did not mention the pastrami at Katz’s!!
Rock on Bob Cushner
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Ha,I grew up with one of the Katz’s kids on Long Island.
It’s still the best non- kosher deli in NYC.
Best,
Steve Fenster
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Wexler's Deli
Langers
Get over your east coast obsession, you live it LA, Dammit!
George Kahn
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Loved this, Bob. The nova of your dreams, and maybe the bagel as well, is at Russ and Daughters on Houston Street on the Lower East Side. It's up the street from Katz's Delicatessen.
Jim Scherer
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A nice one. I'm not Jewish but I was married first time to a Jew for 32 years. Injection.
Seems like there are a few things that trigger massive emotions.
You started it. There's taste. And music. Certainly smells. (I still remember oil cloth smell from summer camp.)
I'm sure there are many more.
Rik Shafer
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Check out Joyce Goldstein’s cookbooks to get turned on the the cuisine of the Sephardim; the “other” Jewish cuisine--turns out a lot of “Mediterranean cuisine ” and southern French cooking originated with the Sephardic diaspora.
www.amazon.com/New-Mediterranean-Jewish-Table-Recipes/dp/0520284992/ref=sr_1_9?crid=20ZJ5LI768V4Q&keywords=joyce+goldstein+cookbooks&qid=1578634537&sprefix=Joyce+gol%2Caps%2C231&sr=8-9 Gregory J. Spradling
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I'm drooling! i got a Russ & Daughters care package over the Holidays with their Atlantic lox and the pastrami lox and 6 NY bagels, cream cheese, and a chocolate Babka! It was the real shit! Loved reading this and agree. Nobody beats Langer's rye bread! Bring on 2020, Cheers, Tom Ross
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Great piece today on Zabar's
Cultural, baby boomers, Jewishness
Completely related to leaving blood for cardiologist and breaking out the bagel
Try Nona's Empanadas across from Cedars on 3rd.
I grew up in the bronx near Tremont went to sack's Kosher, Bakery on the block lots more you didn't experience in the.
Try continental kosher bakery in North Hollywood on Burbank near Laurel. Closest I have come to a Jewish East Coast Bakery
I also lived for about 10 year on 83rd between Riverside and West End and watched Zabars expand and the bagel bakery at 80th St and Broadway
who made the bagels for Zabars.
thanks
Seth Willenson
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Thank you for the memories of Zabar’s and Jewish soul food. I enjoyed reading about your brief return to deli gluttony almost as much as you did partaking of it. I think you do some of your best writing when you write about music, but I have to say this post was absolutely pitch perfect. Now I’m craving real cream cheese with giant chives. And whitefish and sable. And real bagels. Thanks for sharing!
Florie Brizel
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Hi Bob people can say what they will about Long Island .... it actually helps if one has been there ... but we are in deli heaven. And now, we're in Indian food heaven as well. Gastronomically, moving here wasn't such a bad idea ...
Happy new year,
Eddie Havoc
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There is a long-standing duel between Montreal bagels and New York bagels. Ours are poached in honey water and NYC’s are more like a donut. The application of lox and cream cheese, perhaps with some thinly sliced onions and tomatoes and a couple of capers, defines the Jewish culture imported from Eastern Europe which has so shaped Canadian culture; along with so many others
Would that America embrace the cultural diversity that we celebrate north of the 49th.
Good luck with all this churn you folks are dealing with.
Rob Braide
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Montreal still has 2 original locations with the original recipe (the hot honey water finish leaves a beautiful light glaze) hardwood brick ovens. Fairmont and St Viateur. Been there 70+years. International connoisseurs all claim that they are the world's best. Americans don't like them because the hole is so big, that the average USA fresser worries that the filling will fall out.
But you probably know all this.
All the best
Philip Rambow
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Living only 12 miles north of NYC we are a mere 20 minutes from this Mecca. If we time it right we can park a few blocks away and stroll down Broadway crossing paths with the early risers and their full white and orange bags scurrying home with the goods. You don't know how good it can be until you try it and this write up has me psyched for my trip tomorrow morning! Pete and the rest behind the fish counter will get a kick out of this...I will pass it on.
Lorin Finkelstein
PS....I worked for Tom Corson back during his Clive days. He always had taste and his gift proves it.
PPS...Careful with the Langer's comment on the Rye and Pastrami....Katz's might come looking for you!!
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I had a great experience at Zabar's back in the 90's. My band was about to head to an out of town gig. My bass player and I are in line at the now closed, Zabar's express, which was directly next door to the market. An older gentleman was explaining that he would like a bagel with cream cheese, but not the pre-made one. He would pay for both that, and a fresh bagel, onto which the cream cheese could be transferred. After much arguing and back and forth the man finally picked up the packaged bagel, waved it over his head and yelled "What self respecting Jew eats a cold bagel!!"
We fell out. Classic.
Cheers,
Chris Wilford
Cami Music
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Worked in Westport for 24 years. Gold's was/is, well, the gold standard. Monty Python: 'Pastrami, pastrami, pastrami, pastrami..pastrami - wonderful pastrami!' (not spam!).
Scott Hazlewood
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Next time you’re in Manhattan: Barney Greengrass--the Sturgeon King—Amsterdam Ave. 86th and 87th Streets. It beats Zabar’s, which I’m not suggesting is bad, it’s just that Barney’s is superior. Go, sit in back, and be transported to a lost Manhattan of many years ago. There’s nothing like it. Gary, the current generation grandson, runs it from his perch up front at the cash register. It’s an experience that Zabar’s can’t compare to. Yeah, I know, you’re thinking, this guy, Toby Byron, he ain't a jew, well… take my word and make it your business to visit Barney Greengrass.
www.barneygreengrass.com Toby Byron
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Here in London there’s a pretty good place called ‘Panzer’s’ where they make an excellent smoked salmon and cream cheese bagel. We played some shows in their deli and they gave us bagels in the break... game changer.
If you’re ever in London you’ll have to try one and let us know if they come close
Enjoy the revelry
Max Luck
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I’m still in bliss reading this on the tube in London
Thanks Bob
Best
Sheldon Lazarus
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I don't know why you'd find yourself in Montreal. BUT if you did, visit Snowdon Deli. Everything you're looking for — all the way down to the kernatzle and matzah ball soup.
- Michael Sayegh
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Having lived in LA (and Boston) trust me as a Brooklyn born, Grabsteins, Warren and Marty’s, Sid and George, Jay and Lloyd’s deli goer there’s no such thing as a deli outside of Brooklyn and Manhattan (Katz) ! We grew up with the greatest bagels and BIALY’S on the planet bar none! And that’s a fact! In our neighborhood there where dedicated bagel AND bialy bakeries co existing right next door to each other. Imagine that for a second. Zabar’s will never come close...
Doug Pomerantz
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hi Bob - you may already know about it, but if not next time you are in NYC check out Murray’s Sturgeon Shop on Broadway on the upper West Side - maybe the best smoked fish in the world
always enjoy reading -
thanks
steve schwartz
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Just the subject line with Zabar's in it sent me into a nostalgic spiral.
Years ago, when Hickory Farms had stores around the country, I worked for them in the marketing department here in Toledo, Ohio (actually Maumee). One of my favorite tasks was the hunt for new products to sell in our stores. This meant visits to New York every other year for the Fancy Food Show. But we always came in a couple of days earlier to visit Zabar's and see what interesting new products they were carrying. We put together our purchases and shipped them back to the office where half of the staff was waiting to see what we had to share.
Then we walked the streets visiting Dean & Deluca's and every deli and specialty food store we could discover. I certainly miss those times! Maybe it is time for a road trip!
Jeffrey A Davis
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With all due respect, for old-school bagels and whitefish, check out Russ & Daughters.
Best,
Peter Knobler
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Love it! Love Zabars. Love the sable, had it the other day from our great deli in the west SF valley - LOVI’S
Phil Wagner
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Montreal – St. Viateur Bagels! The very best.
www.stviateurbagel.com/ Thank you Bob. I’m going to eat a bagel now.
Renee Saifer
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My whole family loves Jelly Rings! From generation to generation, we were raised on em! I need to take you to this restaurant Sadelle’s when you come back to NYC.
Adam Alpert
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In New York, bagels are like pizza, we can argue forever who’s got the best… but yes, it’s all about the water.
Next time you’re in the city, give these guys a go:
www.blackseedbagels.com/ Frederick Weiss
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Tandem Bagels in Easthampton and Northampton, Mass, is awesome
like you remembered and their cream cheese is out of this world.
Tony Colao
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Your friend Tom should send you a care package from Orwashers'. I lived in the UES for roughly two years; despite constant walking, I attribute the fact I packed on about 15 lbs. while living in NYC to Orwashers!
www.orwashers.com/ Michael H.
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You have reminded me of occasional trips with my dad on Sunday mornings to go to downtown Meriden (I am very much using the term, "downtown," charitably) to Zaitz's Deli to get bagels, lox, whitefish.
William Carlos Williams teaches us that nothing is so white as the memory of whiteness. But I'll bet those Sunday meals were every bit as good as I recall.
Best,
John Hyman
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Olivy…enjoy Tatalah!
Michael Abramson
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Oy ! Go to Freeman’s in Silver Lake for dinner. It’s like going to Gramma’s but the shtetl recipes are modernized. All the memories plus all the yum !
Joel Roman
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After reading this, I headed to Brent's and had a cornbeef sandwich and got some smoked cod for tomorrow.
Alan Fenton
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Friday. If I went with my father, we'd also stop at the butcher and every time the butcher would give me a slice or two of salami to eat while my he and my father sorted our order. Coming in from Long Island, we always went straight over the Williamsburg Bridge to the lower east side and Russ & Daughters - and shopping on Orchard Street.
Leslie Greene
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LOVED reading this! I feel like I just watched a movie of myself eating a Zabar's bagel and lox.
And bless Felice - "Do you want me to tell you when to stop?"... ha ha! So sweet.
MKB
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As a Goy my experience has always been limited butt treasured when you find the real thing, especially here in flyover country. My brother in law moved to Solano Beach and there is a very price place called Milton's that... well it does a nice job. In St. Louis it is Protzels. The best corned beef and pastrami, and matzoh ball soup. When I first started to practice I was the lone gentile in the firm and it was such a great experience. I learned a lot from my bosses who told me, "Your name is Becker... you could ""pass""... if you don't talk." Taught me when I was young that people will think I am smarter if I shut up.
Amen.
Michael A. Becker
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What? No mention of H & H Bagels?
Claire Lawing
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Happy New Year Bob! Reminds me of Anton Ego in Ratatouille where he takes a bite and it takes him back to his childhood. Think so many of us feel this when we taste something that reminds us of what we ate at an impressionable young age.
You gotta love Izzy’s in Santa Monica and Nate n Als in Bev Hills and of course Arts deli in the valley where every sandwich is “a work of Art”
Best
Gary Nuell
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I grew up on Long Island and moved away when I was 28, and there were three things i have always missed--real bagels, real pizza, and real deli potato salad (the german deli I grew up going to had/still has the best). there are usually places in most major cities that have real bagels and NY style pizza (we have Gotham Bagels here in Madison and now I wanna drive downtown and get some!). but I've never seen the potato salad replicated
and yeah, the bagel shaped bread is an absolute travesty, and you can find those and other assorted cheap and quite disgusting bakery items in hotels that offer continental breakfast
Mike Farley
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If you’re ever in Tarzana, go to Bea’s Bakery, they have the rye (and pumpernickel) you’r talking about! Fantastic. This is where the Jewish delis in the valley get their rye bread.
Joel Goldman
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ny.eater.com/maps/best-bagels-nyc Coincidentally published today.
Matthew Vladimir
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Vaht no knish!
Neal Berz
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Exactly, BLISS
Evan Gogou
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Did he send the coffee too? There are no better coffee beans you can buy in the metro area than Zabars at 9.99/lb. Zabars orginal blend, skip kenyan, dark roast or anything else. Have him send the original. And make sure you have a good drip coffee maker that gets the water hot enough during brewing to extract full flavor.
None better.
Gregory McLoughlin
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I love it when you talk about being Jewish. If you want to explain Judaism to a non-Jew, bring them to the Zabar's fish counter around Yom Kippur - absolute chaos. Next time you're in NYC, to truly experience the nova of your dreams, you should go to Zabar's and get the hand-cut. I also like their mini black and whites. But don't get the bagels there- come up to 108th street and get your bagel from Absolute Bagels- far better than Zabar's.
The next generation has successfully branched out of delis: Sandy Zabar, the daughter of one of the founders, is the head of general internal medicine at NYU and a national leader in her field. One of the younger Zabars was profiled in the NYT- she is the CEO of Momofuku: Momofuku’s Secret Sauce: A 30-Year-Old C.E.O.
Keep up the great newsletter!
best,
Michael Cantor
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At 8am this morning I was telling my wife about one of the things that
helped me on dates in college. Then I read your missive.
I grew up in Brooklyn, right off Kings Highway, I went to Wagner on
Staten Island. Fall of 1965 I would take freshman women, most from
small east coast towns, to Brooklyn, Joe's Deli, on the corner of E4th
& Kings Highway, the block I grew up on.
My now single uncle had an apartment in a two family house on the same
street, I had the keys and knew his work schedule, so after Joe's I
sometimes got lucky.
On Kings Highway, next to Joe's deli, was the Park Bagel company,
they baked for delis all over Brooklyn. All the men baking the bagels
had tattoos on their forearms.
Fall 1960, when I had just turned 13, I was in the bagel bakery
packing bagels by the gross, 20 cents per, when there was a commotion
outside. I ran out the door to see JFK's campaign motorcade go by. The
sidewalks were crowded, there were people hanging out of the apartment
building windows waving dish towels, I didn't see anything like that
until Beatlemania!
Now I'm going to toast a pretty decent poppy bagel from a bakery in Mt. Kisco.
Have a good morning
Paul Zullo
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My dad was a deli, appetizing and bagel man. I was 10 when he put me to work selling hot dogs to customers from the grill in the front window. I stood on a wooden box and the customers thought I was so cute. He became more successful when he moved the family from Long Island to Hallandale in the ‘70s and partnered with a bagel guy. He brought deli home for dinner many nights.
He always told us not to eat sable because it was a mud fish. And when I went to Zabar’s, where I was the other day, I would ask Sam for “western nova,” like my father advised. Can’t get “western nova” any longer.
I used to send a Zabar’s package of nova and bagels to my aunt and uncle who spent winters in Phoenix. Happy relatives.
And as an advertising sprite, I worked at the agency that launched Lender’s frozen bagels, which my dad thought was a shonda.
Thank you for a morning of wonderful memories. My husband and I are trending vegan but I still have Zabar’s nova in the freezer.
Melinda Fishman
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I grew up in the 60’s in Rego Park/Forest Hills and was a classmate of David (son of Stanley) Zabar from grade school, through Junior High (Russell Sage) and High School (FHHS/Class of ’72.) Compounding this coincidence is that prior to my mother Jill marrying my biological father, she dated Stanley! When listing her great mistakes, I always knew her not marrying into the Zabar’s clan would be an awfully tough one to top! She subsequently did however in the mid 1980’s, having given birth to myself (3/14) and my younger brother (12/22)…and she celebrated her birth on September 8th. You see, one day in 1984 the New York State Lottery went over the one hundred million dollar mark for the very first time. I found myself in Salt Lake City, promoting records to the local top 40 stations (for Atco/Atlantic) and called the 900 number to hear the winning numbers, knowing my mom was a regular player. The recording calmly announced the winning numbers…. 3…8… 9… 12… 14… and 22!!! I can still feel my heart pounding as I dialed the phone, calling my now single mother… the one who had given birth just twice and probably had a couple of Zabar’s bags filled with non-winning lottery tickets, in case her tax guy needed evidence for a write off (lol.) The phone rang two or three times as I broke into a sweat, and she answered with a sweet and smoky “Hello?” I screamed expectantly into the phone, “SO?” and there was a pause… She calmly said, “Oh, I know what you’re thinking. You think we won the lottery… but I never play all those numbers on the same card! They are all such low numbers! I had you birthday and my birthday on one ticket, your brother’s birthday and mine on another, and yours and your brothers on another!!! I won thirty-nine dollars!”
oh yeah, one other thing. In 1965 this 10-year-old spent yet another couple of months in the Poconos, at Blue Mountain Camp. I was in Bunk I-6. The counselor in the adjoining bunk, I-5, was a 20-year-old acting student, currently attending Yale University named Henry Winkler! The following year Henry did not return, but my counselor was Larry Gonsky, who six or seven years later would be the keyboard player in the band Looking Glass (“Brandy (You’re A Fine Girl).”)
Thanks for the memories. We have a decent (and wildly expensive/successful) business here in Nashville, called Proper Bagel. The owners are a couple of girls whose parents went to Forest Hills High a few years before me!
Marc Nathan
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You've hit three hot topics: bagels, rye bread, and pastrami. Seems like no one restaurant/deli can do all three to your (or my) standard.
Noah Bagels (Einstein's) invented the modern bread donut. It is steamed (not boiled), then baked. It was done for economies of production but it is not a bagel. I have not eaten bagels everywhere, but Marin Bagel in San Rafael, CA and Bialy's Bagels in University Heights, Ohio both make nearly perfect traditional bagels. Even Salt Lake City has the Bagel Project, owned by a transplanted east coaster.
I lived in Cleveland in an apartment behind Danny Budin's restaurant deli (now gone), where they baked rye bread (and other baked wonders) on the hour. My brother and I would walk to get two loaves at our mother's request, and we always made it back with one and a half. I agree about Langer's rye bread, but if you get to Los Alamitos, the Katella Bakery, Deli and Restaurant has fantastic rye (and other breads), and a scissors-type slicer with two settings (for a thinner slice). Beware of pastries.
Real pastrami requires steaming, which is what all of the traditional Jewish delis have. Langers, Brents, Katella all have wonderful pastrami.
The deli business is a family affair, and families get tired of the business or get old and close. There is almost always a reasonably good deli where there is a large enough Jewish population to support it. New York and Los Angeles have the most delis and the most Jews, but Cleveland, Atlanta, Denver all have wonderful delis.
rgds/Michael Cohn/San Diego
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Hey bob
I was vending recently at PhanArt before the Phish show on December 30th at The Garden and picked up a black and white and a pint container of herring tidbits before I headed to 7th avenue. I was in heaven. The only person who noticed my Zabar’s was my brother in law Phil who laughed because I really painted the stereotype of who I am: the Phunky Balabusta aka Jewish and shomer shabbos phish fan who produces and Phish yarmulkes. I even put a photo of the black and white on my IG and lo and behold, Zabar’s “liked” it.
Zabar’s 2nd floor mezzanine: no place like it for housewares! Amazingly fair prices for excellent quality items that you can’t get at Bed Bath and Beyond or Amazon. Old fashioned quality real shopping at its New York finest.
To clarify a bit: yes, it’s well-known that the food about which you wax poetic (deli and appetizing) is on the outs. But Jewish food isn’t just Eastern European. We have lived all over this planet for thousands of years. Folks have written books about this topic. As long as a Jew lived in a place, they adapted the local foods to the kosher diet. So, Jews in North Africa didn’t have bagels and lox but they had couscous and turmeric infused fish. Jews in Italy didn’t have pastrami sandwiches rather they had some kind of kosher meat with an Italian flair. What makes food “Jewish” is that, historically, it was made kosher. It is a common misnomer to refer to deli and appetizing as Jewish food, as If there isn’t any other type.
And in terms of our intermarriage rates, yes it’s true we are mixing with the non Jews. But it’s also true that Jewish life is thriving all across the Former Soviet Union, that there’s a Chabad house in all the major places In South America that Israelis travel after the army, and 90,000 Jews recently filled the Meadowlands for the Siyum HaShas which was a celebration commemorating the completion of a 7 year cycle of daily Talmud learning across the world.
We are thriving as a people. The key is for us to all get along and have more unity.
And BTW sometimes Aldi’s packaged lox is so tasty it harkens back to old school Nova; something that Costco lox never does.
Rachel Loonin Steinerman
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Dang, Bob. You got me drooling. I can also testify to a Lender's bagel experience, but the penny didn't drop, 'til they became available refrigerated. For me, it was about the onion bagel. Growing up in the flyover country on Wonder Bread and Miracle whip, I don't think I'd ever tasted a baked product with onions in it that wasn't meatloaf. It wasn't the no-compromises, soul-searing religious experience of your childhood, but it was pretty damned good for here in the Great Middle, particularly with a shmear of Philly's smoked salmon cream cheese, which can no longer be found in these parts. Again, not the full experience, but barring a train trip to Chicago, it was as good as it got, and even then we wouldn't have known which deli.
Mojo Bone
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Now we're talkin'.
Growing up on the Upper West Side in the 1960s, that distant time when it was still possible to earn a middle class living as an actor or musician and afford an apartment there, Zabar's was an enormously important source for nutritional and spiritual sustenance. Still is.
I had the good fortune to do a little work for Saul and Stanley Zabar about 15 years ago, and they were wonderful.
When I told my mom about it, she wrote a long email, which I shared with them, about being struggling actors in the city back then, but what a magical time it was, and how they were such a big part of it. They sent her an *enormous* box of coffees and treats of all kinds, completely free of charge, out of the goodness of their hearts.
They also deserve major credit as patrons of the arts. When a Banksy appeared on the side of the old Woolworth's building a couple of blocks away, rather than have it scrubbed like so many other Neanderthal dipshits have done, they installed a giant piece of plexiglass over top of it to preserve it. Google "Banksy Zabar's" and you'll find it.
Today, to walk in and stand there and simply SMELL the magnificence of everything crashing together, especially in the coffee department, remains a peak human experience. Something everyone should do at least once in their lifetime. I may be goyim, but every time i walk in there, I'm ready to convert.
As Neil Simon said, "I hope the Zabar's in heaven is as good as the one down here."
Thanks, Bob. Great post!
best,
FBC
F R A N K . C O L E M A N
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As someone who grew up with my Father MAX being Al Capone's meat butcher on the south side of Chicago (Hyde Park), I know from Deli's. Moving from Chicago who had Batt's Deli where the Chicago radio and record people would eat as Chess Records was around the corner, I thought nothing could be better.
Moving to NY and spending the next 50 years there, we discovered not only Zabar's but the real Jewish deli's. Carnegie, 2nd Avenue, 6th Avenue, Stage Deli, all gone, but Katz's is still there.
Yes, your so right as LA just doesn't have the bagels, however Toronto has as good a bagel as NY. There is a Gourmet bagel place in Woodbury Long Island called Gabby's that we have all the appetizing sent from. The #1 bagel place in all of NY is called OASIS right next to St. Johns University off the L. I. Expressway in Queen's.
Yes, after moving to LA we went everywhere for the deli's and rate Brent's with double baked bread as well in Northridge our choice. We also like the Pastrami at Langers. I also like Nat'N Al's in Beverly Hills and ate at Canter's for many years upon my visits to LA. Not a fan of the Brooklyn bagel (Larry King's) in Beverly Hills, but the closest to NY is Western Bagel.
We just found a Russian market, OLIV'E in Tarzana in the Valley that has home made Gefilte fish as well as very good lox.
Come for a nosh anytime.
Regards,
Ron Alexenburg
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Note to self, never read a wonderful piece about Jewish deli food at seven in the morning.
Every word is true, nothing like Jewish deli food. In high school in the 1970s I worked at MilJay’s Kosher deli in North Massapequa, Long Island. Every town had a kosher deli in Nassau.
Harder to find now, but I think what I’ll do this afternoon is hop on the subway from Queens to the Lower East Side, And stop in at Russ & Daughters for some belly lox and whitefish salad and chopped liver. Then walk two blocks to Yonah Schimmel for the fresh baked knishes they’ve been selling since before the war. Not THAT war. And not even THAT war.
Finish up at Katz’s, not for pastrami, but for a quart of their matzoh ball soup.
And find some bialy‘s along the way. Not bagels, I’m on a diet!
L’Chaim and I Love New York!
Dave Arbiter
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Bob, next time in New York try Russ & Daughters (2 blocks west of Katz's) -- the best smoked fish in the city and exotic (truffle, caviar, chives) cream cheeses, great bagels etc. Katz's has a great fatty pastrami, and Pastrami Queen on the upper east side is a contender too. Second Avenue Deli, no longer on Second Avenue, is a good bet for center cut beef tongue (my favorite -- people are aghast when I tell them). When friends come up from the city to visit us in the Berkshires they bring me an assortment in a cooler --
about the only thing missing from the Berkshires at this point is a decent deli. My son tells me there are still some good delis in LA, though. No need to rely on Zabar's still, even though good delis are indeed a vanishing luxury.
Tom Werman
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So weird: I had Zabar’s (in Grand Central) on Wednesday and Gold’s in Westport yesterday! This lapsed episcopalian agrees with every word you wrote.
Mat Orefice
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In the Northern Westchester area of New York where I grew up, all the good deli's were italian. I had to go into the City for a good Jewish deli. I've never seen a Polish deli, but I'm sure it's fine.
Charles McGarry
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15 Year reader from when I was in the music world to now as the Marketing Director For Stew Leonard's. Your letter today got me thinking about some parallels between the changing food industry and what the music industry has gone through in the 15 or so years I've been reading about in your letters. Let me know if you'd ever like to speak with Stew Jr. or Sr. both have a very unique story and experience and I feel would be great guests.
Thank you,
Matt Crucius
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I want a bagel!! Mort's used to have pretty good ones, but I don't know where to find a good one now...
Kate O'Laughlin
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We were a Max's, then Sam's family too! My mother's father was the kosher butcher next door, and my uncle was the grocer at Sunshine market on the corner.
Not many people know of Max's then Sam's.
Ken Shain
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I read the Zabars piece and I thought of Max’s/Sam’s. Dad weekly proclaimed “Breakstone has offered thousands for his chive cheese recipe but he wouldn’t sell”. And the jelly rings he would tell me to stick my fingers out, my hands were small and it was hard to spread my fingers. I would always close my eyes when I spread my fingers
Correction: Brett Gold’s father was Irving but I was friends with Julius’s daughter Lauren until high school when they moved to Westport
My sister Wendy
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