Re: More Agents
Hey Bob
Love from New Zealand, where my global tour dropped me up during a pandemic! Thanks, tour! I’m gonna stay here for a while. The touring/music/venues situation is really fascinating down here in not-america-land. A few weeks ago, Jacinda Ardern announced a $175m package to pump support into the arts. $175 MILLION. This is a country with a population way smaller than NYC - the total population of New Zealand is 5 million (NYC has nearly 9 million). If Trump made a similar stimulus package for the arts, adjusting for America’s population....I’ll let you do the math.
The borders here are closed - tightly closed - and probably for a long time. NZ (and if you’re on the right side of history, you’ll call it Aotearoa) effectively eliminated the virus by going early and hard. There were two weeks recently with no new cases, and there’s been a small uptick of 20 or so new cases in the last week - mostly repatriations from outside.
So - the military has taken over the borders and quarantine, and they mean business.
That means no more international touring acts, for a LONG TIME.
What’s fascinating about this is that the local acts and festivals are actually interested and excited in what they can now do with what’s growing in their own backyard. I was talking to Pitsch, the booker for the Hawke’s Bay Arts Festival, and he’s convinced it’ll be a treasury of local - and hopefully for indigenous - talent now that the big fish from overseas aren’t there to take the spotlight.
A great Auckland songwriter, Reb Fountain, was about to do her first massive USA tour and first SXSW when this all went down. But business is changing for her: she represents something different now as she’s touring around locally. It’s amazing...it’s like the Farmers Market model as applied to music. Think Local. Support Local.
Maybe it’s time for that. More local musicians talking to their actual communities, using song. Why not? It’s how we used to do it many moons ago.
Meanwhile, regarding agents....if i tried to count, and I don’t wanna, I have had at least 40-50 people walk through the revolving door of my team. Multiple european and australian booking agents, many managers, publicists, assistants, labels, label “services”, lawyers, business managers, internet strategy teams, the works. I’m a demanding and strange artist who never wants to do things by the book and rarely puts the profit first...and I drive everybody absolutely nuts.
And? The longest-standing member of my team by a factor of many is Matt Hickey, my US booking agent at High Road. He’s been with me since 2004, far longer than anyone.
I cannot tell you how valuable it has been to have someone who has watched the entire arc of my career through the lens of the stage and the venue. Matt booked The Dresden Doll’s in tiny clubs and bars. He’s booked my solo symphony shows and every festival. He’s watched my frustration with the music business and label racket up close. He’s watched me embrace twitter and flash-gigs and talked many local promoters off the ledge when they call in a fit because I’m doing a free show outside for the kids. He’s watched me go through my paces on kickstarter and patreon and he understands that I always need a second pre-order window (begins the venue’s subscribers) and my own control over a massive guestlist so my office team can sort its own VIP ticketing for my patrons.
He’s dealt with my desire to tour as a theatrical conjoined-twin outfit, effectively bringing weird plays into music venues. He’s seen and done it all, and his advice is now some of the most valuable to me, because he knows and groks the long tail of my career.
When I need an ear about a new team member, Matt’s one of my first phone calls. It may be an unusual relationship for an artist to have with an agent, but I’m an unusual artist.
Also, the longer I tour, and realize that this is really a life-long job I’ll be doing....i mean, they’ll pry me off stage in my 90s, and even then my COLD ALMOST DEAD HANDS will be gripping the boards, as my stage-ego gets entangled in my own feather boa....
It all makes me realize that an agent really can be the stable, secret weapon of a career. They hold long-term knowledge - how the artist has been interacting with the world stage and The People since the early days - and if they are good, they have a deep instinct about the long-term direction of a band or artist that’s just irreplaceable. That’s why the percentage is worth it, if the agent is good.
Hang In There Everybody,
Amanda Fucking Palmer
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Re: More Agents
Hi Bob.
Interesting missive you sent out. And so was Rod McSween's response.
Seems to me that the response most folks gave betray the fact that very few have any idea of what a Concert Tour Promoter actually does.
However, first as to the supposed "inherently dishonest" promoter. I don't think so. However, the deal structure imposed by the various agents and managers on promoters certainly encourages such dishonesty. Used to be that a deal had a 20% promoter's profit baked in before the entertainer (which is a more accurate description than "artist") and the promoter split the net revenue accruing from a show. That 20% is ancient history. Now we got 95/5 deals against a sell-out guarantee and such further insanity. Thus, to the extent a promoter "cheats" she or he will inflate the costs leading to the net to be split - which all agents know and mostly tolerate. They got to. Bankrupt promoters make very bad buyers. But that "cheating" yields comparatively very little money. So it's usually not worth the effort.
The nitty gritty stuff Rod McSween says he does (for what it's worth I've never worked with him or any British agent except Barrie Marshall and Rob Hallett and two or three others on occasion) is nice, and is usually done by Road Managers (not tour managers - tour managers do not represent the entertainer). What Rod McSween DOES NOT do is guarantee the performance fee for each and every show whether it flops or not - which a Concert Tour Promoter does.
Now. A Tour Manager is the representative of the Concert Tour Promoter. She or he manages the tour for the Concert Tour Promoter with respect to the Concert Tour Promoter's local promoter partners and simultaneously is the Concert Tour Promoter's counterpart to the entertainer's Road Manager.
In any case. We're beating a dead horse here. COVID 19 is to the live entertainment industry what the Yucatan asteroid was to the dinosaurs 66 million years ago. Our industry is dead, dead, dead. At least for now. Maybe in three years time we'll see a glimmering of large-scale live events. Not anytime soon, though.
As to Michael Rapino's memo to the agents. I think it's pretty reasonable. Though logically it would require that all promoters adhere to the standards set forth therein. Which, assuming we as an industry do a Lazarus of Bethany, for competitive reasons likely ain't gonna happen.
Regards,
Michael Fisher
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Re: More Agents
?Ok. Enough.....
Agents are key players, but it’s the manager who set the agenda. It’s the manager who speaks to the artist everyday.
Everyone has their role to play. The agent books the shows. The road manager
does logistics. The record company promotes the music and the brand. The press agent does press. There is someone who takes care of the social media. There are all the music producers and musicians that help the artist create the content. Accountants and lawyers are valuable but annoying.
But only the artist and the manager know the whole picture and where it’s going.
The manager is the CEO and the artist is the chairman of the board.
We hire everyone else.
We decide the division of labor. We set the agenda.
Think of it this way:
The manager conducts the orchestra. The artist is the creator and feature performer. Everyone else is the orchestra.
The magic is getting everyone playing together, turning the pages together.
No agent or anyone else from the orchestra can take the artist from being unknown to being successful.
Everyone is important and everyone has to do their part, but the artist sets the goals. A good manager tries to give the artist success on their terms.
Ron Stone
Gold Mountain Entertainment
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Re: More Agents
Meat Puppets. 1980-2020 and onward.
5 labels and counting
4 managers
3 lawyers
2 publishers
1 agent - and agency - that is, wherever Frank Riley lands.
Dennis Pelowski
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Re: Rod MacSween On Agents
Sounds like this dinosaur is making a case trying to keep his job!
Brad Blanco
overeasybooking.com
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Re: More Agents
After reading these responses, one thing a lot of people are pointing out is that some Agents of today don’t have the same knowledge or experience that Agents like Rod have.
Somewhere over the last 10 years a lot of things changed, this might become a problem in the future.
Danielle Douglas
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Re: More Agents
Bob - agents are glorified car salesmen. They sell the hottest model on the lot.
Robert Dubac
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Re: More Agents
This is a great thread. Many of the things listed that I have read are usually covered by a Tour Manager and on the show advances with a Tour Manager, the Road Manager, and Production Company.
A great agent builds relationships and builds trust on both ends with the artist and the purchaser, but it takes a great team to put together the performance. Even though a lot of our business is referral, we still need to turn over rocks out there to find work for our artists. On the flip side, you get paid what the market will allow, so agents need to do their homework when it comes to the buyers and events.
Personally, I want to know everything I can about an artist when we decide to bring them into our company. It’s an investment for both of us in time, resources, and work. The same with purchasers. A lot of us agents know each other and we communicate together when it comes to routing dates, pick up shows and buyer history, plus we learn from each other.
The current pandemic has changed the landscape for all of us. Great agents should constantly evolve and learn to adapt to any situation.
Leni DiMancari
Ten 13 Entertainment LLC
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Re: More Agents
Rob Lights analogy of a football team is false. In traditional models the artist is more like the QB, signed to contracts by the ownership, with no power to fire anyone besides maybe throw in an influential word on teammates. The QB can be traded, catalogue sold, benched (shelved), etc. The QB is only valuable if producing wins. A couple bad seasons due to bad GMing or mismanagement of the team, the QB gets cut. The QB is the fall guy, not the owner.
People who use analogies like this are self-inflating their value, and it’s a grift. The artist SHOULD have autonomy, with solid business influence floating up from below, but we both know that’s rarely the case.
Matt MacDonald
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Re: More Agents
This series of emails has been a really solid discussion on roles played and actual experience in the live realm. I work as both an artist manager and a tour manager. I also have a long-standing relationship with Will Bracey, who I’m very proud of for bring his perspective to the conversation. I am also very fortunate to have worked with some incredible agents who have made a solid difference in how I have operated as a tour manager for all levels of artists (van tours to arena tours) and who have had very educated and valued input for the developing artists that I manage.
I feel strongly that Rod sort of shot an airball with his breakdown of agents’ value. I also feel that Will Bracey and Rob Light absolutely hit the nail on the head in their own deliveries in response. As the tour manager/production manager, we take care of all aspects of the artist’s movements from health & safety, performance quality, finances, crew efficiency and most of all: fan experience. This DOES NOT HAPPEN without the higher-ups (artists & managers mainly) being very actively involved in what anything live is going to exist as.
Quality agents - and I have to give credit to Rob Light, whom I do not know personally, but am aware of, and his response here regarding the football team analogy and his broad, hands-on experience on the road - play a crucial role in planning and strategy. After that, the most valuable moves an agent can make, in my humble opinion, are being extremely communicative with the tour manager and always being prepared to go to bat for the artist, albeit with a realistic perspective based on their extensive knowledge and experience, at any time of day or night.
That being said, I cannot say that every agent I’ve worked with has had this level of experience or determination to truly fight for the artist, even when it could hurt their relationship with a promoter. I also must lean into the point that a lot of what Rod claims an agent does just isn’t in-line with how tours and the key members steering the ship operate these days.
Most of the tour managers I know are hands-on with every aspect of tours, including the wide spectrum of movements and appearances an in-demand artist will have on their insane schedules. We are also, as Rob alluded to from his seat, in a thankless position, which from my perspective takes the brunt of day-to-day shit from all departments.
I feel strongly about a solid team from top to bottom and it’s really hard to define some roles, and their value, in detail. But this dialogue is definitely clarifying some important perspectives and actual (current) insights into the live operation and team.
Cheers to you for creating a forum for this and to everyone out there truckin’ through this tough time for our industry in particular.
All the best,
Stephen Schloss
Concrete Artist Management
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Re: More Agents
I started reading this below and decided I didn’t want to know who wrote it until I got to the end, because
everything I read was right on the money, literally and figuratively.
I met Rob and the late, great and dear Bobby Brooks when they started the CAA music division back in the mid-80’s.
I love Rob, and I love what Rob wrote. It is perfect.
If only one person thinks they’re the smartest guy/gal in the room, failure isn’t an option. It’s guaranteed.
When someone asks us what we do, or what we’ve done, it’s sometimes near impossible to answer,
because what they’re really asking is, what do you know and what have you learned?
The politics, the egos, the reason why you want to pull the photographers out of the pit after
three songs - but if they’re good, escort and give them access to the magic that happens as
the show continues.
Know how to work with or ignore that journalist who’s had a problem in the past with your lead singer.
Do you put them on the side of the stage for a stretch to get a taste of that indescribable
force of energy that comes from the band’s POV? Or do you decide the juice ain’t worth the squeeze
and agree they can sit that show out anywhere but where your band is playing.
Or that it only takes one time leaving the guitar player behind - in his sweats - with no wallet -
when the bus makes a fuel stop, to devise a system to avoid the 3am call.
The man who would be my husband if it wasn’t for his bride (who refers to me as her sister wife),
is an agent who I tormented on a twice-daily basis when I was a manager. Despite that, Andy Somers
still loves me because all we ever wanted was the very best for our bands.
Years back after an artist went from virtual unknown to sold-out-stadium-international-megastar, they took a
a double page ad out in Billboard. They thanked every promoter, their agents, management team, costumes,
bus and trucking, crew to caterers. The last person listed was their publicist.
I taped the ad to my office door with a note - “First to blame, last to thank.”
And that was OK by me.
Janie Hoffman
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From: Jay Ruston
Subject: Re: The Bolton Book
These days because of vinyl backlog, I have to deliver a record six months in advance. Some labels can do it a bit quicker, but I’m seeing this more and more.
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Subject: Re: The Bolton Book
Hi Bob,
As someone with music and a novel published online, I agree with your analysis of both industries.
In Dublin the pandemic seems to be accelerating the evolution of a localised musical and literary culture involving small-scale performances in pubs and web publications promoted personally on Facebook and YouTube. It's set to explode when the pubs and other venues re-open in a coupe of weeks.
Best regards,
Paul Nash
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Subject: Re: Sober
As one who has worked closely with many addicts in my career, and was partners with Dr Drew’s manager, your description of the grip of addiction seems pretty spot on. Jim Morrison was an addict, but to alcohol and we weren’t sophisticated and experienced enough to ‘send him to rehab’-I don’t think there even was such a thing then. And it cost him his life. Now we know addiction kills 10’s of thousands a year and we are trying to respond effectively as a people. This song powerfully reminds us that we all need to work to fight it, whether in ourselves or someone we care about.
Thanks for bringing the lyrics
Bill Siddons
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Re: The Daily
On Monday, my VP heard the Facebook episode and we decided to pull all of our Facebook spend.
My employer is very corporate and takes a long time to do anything, but that decision was made within an hour.
We are not going to make a big deal out of it, send out a release, etc. We knew that it was wrong for us to continue to advertise when the platform is supporting hate, total propaganda and housing extremists in their Facebook groups.
Two things about Tuesday's episode:
I live in Louisville. 4 days after George Floyd was murdered, a 911 call was released from a no-knock warrant murder in west Louisville. This murder happened in March, so it had been a while. The 911 call CLEARLY disputed statements from the police report. The police shot Briana Taylor, a 23 year old EMT, at least 8 times. Just now, one of the cops has been fired.
www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html
3 days later, David McTee, a BBQ owner in west Louisville is shot and killed. The Times did a really terrific job analyzing the video of the shooting that raises more questions than answers, www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007175316/the-david-mcatee-shooting-did-aggressive-policing-lead-to-a-fatal-outcome.html
McGrath was completely absent. Booker got tear gassed and then later went to a debate.
Unrelated to the Daily, but I was so upset seeing #AllEyesonKentucky beginning over the weekend. Here were celebs, politicians; all these people on the left (who I side with politically) claiming that Louisville was suppressing votes by having one polling location for 600,000 people. www.rawstory.com/2020/06/all-eyes-on-kentucky-trends-nationwide-one-day-before-key-primary-to-see-who-takes-on-mitch-mcconnell/
Just saying it, sounds shocking right? But everyone in the state could request a mail-in ballot a month before the election and there were 2 locations in Louisville where people could vote in person 10 days prior to the actual primary day. It went off without a hitch. People did start banging on the doors at 6pm when they were shut and locked. Booker asked for an injunction from a judge who was ON SITE, he got the doors opened until 6:30 and everyone got to cast their vote.
Mark Murdock
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Re: The Daily
Kentuckian here. We saw McGrath go viral with an ad for her lost congressional campaign. She then got tons of money from everywhere except Kentucky with the help of (dinosaur) Schumer. She called herself a ‘pro trump democrat’ on her wet fart of an announcement on Morning Joe (google it) and left everyone’s head scratching. After that you’re correct: George Floyd was murdered, but also our hometown essential worker/EMT Breonna Taylor was gunned down and murdered in her bed. I went to Charles’ campaign announcement in front of 85 people. I saw him speak in my friend’s home to 15 white people. Then I saw him march with *US* in the streets vehemently supporting BLM and justice for Breonna and George. He’s the real deal and we love him. Think about it: there is simply no way Mitch McConnell can run against Charles effectively. He called McGrath (a self proclaimed pro trump democrat, remember) too far left for chrissakes. We have a unique chance for real change in Kentucky after decades of dogshit with Mitch. Maybe one day we can finally sit at the cool kid’s table. We want change and we want it soon.
Mark Palgy
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From: Ron Zeelens
Subject: Re: Immigration-H-1B Visas
Thankfully l’orange de menace as a Montreal client calls him has not stopped USCIS from processing petitions for O and P visas for musicians and entertainers.
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Subject: Re: Immigration-H-1B Visas
Bob, From my daughter:
For those of you who know Ramiro, you know he would hate that I'm writing this post. But I need to get something off of my chest.
My husband is a PhD -a trained immunologist supporting #COVID19 research. He directs the UNC School of Medicine Flow Cytometry core and their essential role in COVID-19 research means that he is literally in the lab with this virus during the day instead of safe at home. The machine they use to study the virus can aerosolize the particles, spraying it across the room in a way that allows the virus to hang in the air for some time. This is a risk he knowingly takes every day because it is important that we learn how to stop this thing.
Ramiro came here on an H1-B visa.
If the US finds a treatment or vaccine, it will be in large part due to immigrant scientists like him. Science and technology in this country does not advance without skilled workers on H1-B visas. Full stop.
This Executive Order is cowardly & dangerous. And perhaps more at this moment in time than at any other. We cannot stay silent.
John Williams
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From: Marit Sathrum
Subject: Re: Immigration-H-1B Visas
Dear Bob,
To be fair, women should be paid $1.25 per men's $1.00 since we do WAY more, even on the job (and the home, etc) than men. Wait. In fact, to really be fair, include reparations: $2.00 per men's $1.00 for at least two generations.
Sincerely,
A single mother with a BSE (1980) and small business owner who's probably losing everything because of Covid. Blame the right folks: the christian patriarchy.
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Re: Leadership
Compare US to Australia, they have had 7000 ish cases total here, and 100 dead. Cali had that yesterday ALONE. And here they started this week to freak out bc 125 cases in a week or so poped up in Melbourne. No foreigners allowed in and no Aussie allowed out, for rest of year.
They quarantine everybody returning to the country for 14 days in a hotel, at govt expense. 4 states have no active cases, 5 of the 8 states have border control, they closed them for a long time and now allow people from other states w no active cases to come but Vic and NSW people still forbidden from travel to the other states. 100 new cases here and they postponed plan to allow resto to go up from 20 customers to 50. gyms did open but strict limits on how many. and movies could open but most did not bc of limitations on how many allowed in.
nobody complains, they are of mind set we are all in this together
Brian Barry
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Re: Leadership
This is how Tony Blair got elected. He just started acting like he was the Prime Minister.
His best move was to announce in Parliament that he had seen BT that day and got a guarantee to have broadband delivered to every home. (This was pre 1993)
The Tories went ballistic! They were the party in power — They got to have those meetings. He just ignored them and kept showing us by example what he would be like as a leader. He went on to win 3 elections.
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