Mailbag

From: Graham Gouldman
Subject: Re: Good Morning Judge
Hi Bob,
Thanks for writing about 10cc and in particular ‘Good Morning Judge’.
Here’s some info about how that song was born.
The title comes from the punch line of a joke I’d heard, but can’t fully remember, something about getting drunk, drunker then it’s “Good morning judge”.
Also I’d had a conversation with my dad where we were discussing long term prisoners becoming institutionalised. The last verse of the song speaks to this.
Best wishes
Graham Gouldman
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From: Bill Siddons
Subject: Re: Twisted Business
In 1983 I toured all the labels in the Atlantic Euro system with Phil Carson, doing a label presentation for the new CSN album which was followed by Phil doing his Twisted Sister pitch and he put me to shame. He put on a performance that showed me what a pitch was, and Twisted Sister became a priority for all those WEA labels because of it. I think Phil Carson broke them but perhaps Jay Jay made Phil do it. In any case I learned how to create excitement and also that Dire Straits outsold all of us in every country 10 to 1.
Bill Siddons
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From: Jeff Appleton
Subject: Re: Twisted Business
I first met Jay Jay in KC when I was local Atlantic Rep. No matter what anyone says getting radio to play Twisted Sister was not an easy task. Then the videos hit and they exploded. Meeting band first time Dee was what you expected. Flamboyant and knew how to handle an audience and the people who came back stage. He seemed to know exactly how far to go with each show and was the consumate host back stage. But the person I spent more time with was Jay Jay. He wanted to know who was playing the record,who wasn't. What were programmers saying, what was I hearing from record store people. How many tickets sold, what kind of promotions I did. What could he and the band do to help the upcoming shows that were not sold out. Every band says "we will do whatever it takes" until they get on the road and you have to beg them to get up early to do the morning show. That was never a problem with Jay Jay. He said it and he meant it. I lost track after Atlantic and after a few stops ended up at TVT. I get a call from Jay Jay- he was working with and managing Seven Dust and band was just signed to label. Our first meeting was getting caught up and then moved to answering all his questions and listening to his ideas on promoting the band. I just ordered the book. If you spend anytime with Jay Jay it can be motivational. I wish him nothing but much success.
Jeff Appleton
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From: Bill Hein
Subject: Re: Donny & Chris
Bob,
Greatly enjoyed your conversation with Donny Osmond, also heard him on the Adam Carolla podcast a few days earlier.
I tried to sign Donny to Enigma Records back when he had "Soldier of Love" out on Virgin UK (recorded at Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios as I recall). Enigma was licensed to Virgin for international markets back then and Ken Berry tipped me off that Virgin Records America had passed on releasing Donny in the states. I can remember the WTF expressions of the Enigma rank & file when Donny visited our offices in Culver City. Donny was charming, intelligent, and talented with a huge work ethic. Eventually, Mike Curb got involved and pushed the project to Capitol who got airplay (#2 on Hot 100) for the single but didn't do much to establish Donny as a grown-up album artist. The one that got away...
Bill Hein
Boulder, Colorado
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Subject: Re: Donny Osmond-This Week's Podcast
Bob...
Quick story about Donny. I was a freelance concert reviewer for the New York Daily News ('88-'93.) He did a show at the Palladium in NYC back in '89 when "Soldier of Love" was out. I dug him and took that angle for the review. I later heard he called the News and asked for me; he wanted to thank me for the review. In all my time at the newspaper, he was the only performer to do that. I dig Donny.
Matt Auerbach...
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From: Steve Waxman
Subject: Dave Schools podcast
Hi Bob
I didn’t know who Dave Schools was and I’ve never listened to Widespread Panic. I almost didn’t listen to this episode. Wow! That would have been a mistake. What an incredible conversation. This guy is amazing and incredibly insightful. Every 15 to 20 minutes stood in its own. This is a vital listen for every young musician.
As an aside, you always talk about the lack of relevance of guitar music these days but doesn’t it seem interesting that whenever a hip hop artist does a television appearance they put together a guitar, bass and drums band to play behind them?
Keep up the great guests and more women and hip hop artists please.
Steve Waxman
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From: Craig Anderton
Subject: Re: Get Back-Part Three
"especially in this day of Pro Tools and hard drives and..."
People choose to use Pro Tools the way they do. Before Pro Tools, musicians were synching up multiple tape machines, recording overdub after overdub, comping, shifting pitch...you name it. The only real difference is that now anyone can afford to a) be lazy, and b) think that creating something with "the look and feel" of music is the same as creating music.
But the same technology that allows people to be self-indulgent also makes it easy to capture first takes. With tape, you had to clean and demagnetize the heads, thread the reel, sometimes align the heads, wait for rewind and fast forward, hope the tape didn't stretch, lubricate the pinch roller, set levels with far more care than is needed today, etc.
Since upgrading my setup a year ago, I can start recording in 30 seconds after turning on power. 30 seconds! As a result, these days, most of my parts are just a couple of takes. I keep the hard disk going. When something good happens, I save it.
Yes, I do spend a lot of time mixing and mastering. But the music itself had already been captured by then.
The technology is neutral. What people don't question enough is how they use it.
Craig
From: Joseph Taylor
Subject: Re: Those Fender Amps
I had a 68 Fender Twin. Great amp. I sold it, reluctantly, two years ago. It took up a lot of space and no club in a small market will let you play at that volume anymore. You've covered the decline in the record industry very well, but I'm here to tell you that live music on a local level is damn near ready for last rites. A buddy of mine was talking about a friends' kids who have a popular regional band, and there's a country band here in Central PA that's supposed to be very popular. I went to their web-sites, and both bands work maybe 3 to 4 times a month, and that's in a good month. Many months its two to three times. Hell, my wife and I were in a band in the early to mid-90s that did a lot of originals. She and the lead singer, also a woman, wrote a good third to half our songs, and we worked at least 4 times a month, sometimes even 6 times. I've been in bands that did obscure roots rock and worked every weekend, often two nights each weekend. Now, if you get a gig or two a month, you're happy, and you usually work less. Covid didn't help, but live music in bars was already hanging by a thread. Bar owners want the people to be able to talk and don't want music so lively it might distract customers from watching sports on TV. I'm using a solid state, 20 watt amp. A 15 watt tube amp gets complaints from the bar owner and customers--too loud. As I said, I'm in a small market, but if you're a musician who doesn't do a solo act or maybe duo, you're not working.
Joe T
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From: Jason Bernstein
Subject: Re: Newsom's Texas Gun Law
Gun control is an issue our industry should support, but I believe it should be presented as a financial issue, not a legal one.
?
There are states in which the NRA has helped to pass legislation which makes it illegal to prohibit open carry and/or concealed weapons from entering a stadium or an arena. That means when a metal detector goes off, you still have to allow the person in with a loaded gun. It’s the law in several states.
?
Often, there are carve outs for sports events, but since our industry isn’t part of the conversation, there are no carve outs for music (so you’re safe from guns at a football game, but not at a concert).
Stadium concerts commonly gross $5MM-$12M or more per night. In a stadium of 60,000+ people for any major act, at least 25% of the audience is traveling. That’s a sold out arena’s worth of people needing hotels, airfare, taxis/Ubers, bars, restaurants, clothing, etc. Their spending has an impact.
?
If Artists stop performing at venues where guns cannot be prohibited, and municipalities start to realize they are losing shows and revenue because of their state’s lax gun control laws, then it becomes a community development/financial impact situation; that provides something the venue operators and local tourism boards can take to the legislature and use to start getting things reversed.

The time for thoughts and prayers is over. We need conversations and actions.
Jason Bernstein
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From: Geronimo Son
Subject: Re: The Beatles: Get Back-This Week On SiriusXM
Thanks for having me on the air today!
I
t may sound incredibly stupid, but I had actually just called in to listen to the show haha. I had been wanting to speak with someone about Get Back, someone who cares, so I had actually subscribed to Sirius today just to hear your show, just like you with Disney+, but the app wasn’t firing up right so I called in, I thought the number was a way to listen haha.
I won’t deny that there were times that John Lennon was an asshole, especially some of the mean things he later said in interviews, but he really didn’t come across that way to me in Get Back.
I did complain bitterly, perhaps more so than you have about Get Back, over Peter Jackson’s treatment of the Hobbit. There was no need to water it down that much and make it into two movies With Get Back, if the whole thing had been riveting from start to finish, I would have assumed that he had left out too much. At least this way we know he didn’t cheat us!
A point you said later in the show worth emphasizing is the fact that John and Paul needed to take George more seriously. I was amazed to see how they acted after lunch on the day when George had left and John and Paul were jamming and joking around, carrying on as if nothing had happened!
Oh, and I’m happy that more people realize that Yoko isn’t the one to blame. Maybe she added some tension, as any outsider might, but it certainly wasn’t her fault. Also, I will always love her because she tipped me a $100 dollar bill once on Congress Avenue in downtown Austin, TX. I was busking, playing saxophone, it was a Sunday morning after SXSW and there was a welcome quiet in the street, just workers tearing scaffolding down, almost no one out and about. I just went to play downtown for a bit before catching a bus to work. I had my eyes closed, I was into the music and what I was doing, I think I was riding on a Duke Elllington number and when I opened my eyes and I saw Yoko Ono bending down to put money into my case! I kept playing, I think I bowed a bit and felt very honored as she kept walking down the street. I later looked down and realized she had given me a hundred dollar bill! I was very broke then and needing money for food and rent so I was incredibly grateful not only that she appreciated the music, but for the generous amount. I hadn’t even known she was in town, I later saw in the Austin Chronicle that she had been a speaker at SXSW.
Anyway thanks again for having me on your show,
it was nice taking to you! Your rant about how hard it is to get someone on the phone these days made me laugh, how true! Except when you’re not expecting to get through! Haha
Geronimo
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From: Bettye LaVette
Subject: Re: Ken Kragen-This Week's Podcast
Robert,
Sometimes you make me so mad,
And then some times it seems you know .EVERYTHING.
I just like being amongst the MANY things you know.
This is one of the times when it's fun being older than almost everyone, of the things you know.
When Kenny and the First Edition came about.
They came to Detriot, to work in a joint that held all of a hundred people, to promote, "WHAT CONDITION MY CONDITION WAS IN".
I had covered it, and went to see them and brought Kenny a copy of my interpretation of Condition (it was big in Detroit ) he loved it. Took it to his brother who had just started a new label in Nashville with Shelby Singleton , SSS INTERNATIONAL AND SILVER FOX, which was Lelands label.
Turned out his brother,Leland Rogers had been my national promotion man on my recording "LET ME DOWN EASY." A couple of years before, He was thrilled ...as was I. Leland signed me, I may have been the first artist on the label
The side thing is Kenny, was so broke at the time, and his brother never felt he should give Kenny any " finders fee"for bringing me to the label. It was good for me there for a moment, my.....third career I believe,?? but they were on the outs , until " KNOW HOW TO HOLD EM"at which time he hired his brother, and at least two of Lelands children in the, by then immense Kenny Rogers " aggregation.
See,now you know something else.
I hope your Holidays are WONDERFUL Baby!
B
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Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
Even though every situation is different, and every artists catalog has different circumstances . . . .
It is not just an emotional decision not to sell song publishing rights - it is a smart financial one !!
It is smart because - in two words Bob - CHARLIE CHAPLIN
Many auteurs and moguls through the twentieth century died middle class [or less fortunate], but Chaplin died a wealthy man because he did not sell and OWNED ALL OF HIS FILMS, the equivalent of either owning one's physical masters or publishing rights or both.
If the given songwriting artist wants extra cash liquidity - sell a smaller 25%, 30%, 40% stake to Sony, Warner, whomever.
Bob, you are right that "now Sony owns the work of Bruce Springsteen, the poet laureate of the streets? That’s just sad" - this is certainly true too, but in most cases ownership should not be sacrificed if possible - ask Abkco, ask Experience Hendrix, even ask Calderstone - ownership of artist songwriters with catalogs will offer dividends in the twenty first century in ways that we don't even know yet,
All the best to you Bob,
Phil Klausner
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Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
The Springsteen sale. SONY, definitely not Born on the streets of Philadelphia, let alone in the USA.
Not intending to be nationalistic in any way or digging at the brilliant Springsteen, just the wry observations of life. In 1969 if one had told a 20 year old Bruce that in his lifetime ALL of his songs would belong to a jointly owned Japanese and German company he would have responded, in a loud New Jersey vernacular, "no fuckin' way man".
As in historical admiration of art, literature and philosophy from the Renaissance period, we music fans from decades gone by, are now witnessing the true evergreen riches of music from artists that shaped our lives and passions.
Like the "Get Back" docuseries has opened up a whole new dimension of appreciation for The Beatles recordings.
Stay well Bob. Your musings are thought provoking, as were Bruce's long wordy songs.
Eddie Gordon
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Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
The sums paid for these legacy catalogs are uneconomical in the normal sense of business transactions. There's no rational financial analysis that could validate that any decent ROI or IRR could be achieved at these prices. Remember, too, that these catalogs are depreciating assets -- over the long run the revenue streams will diminish and at some point the term of copyright expires so no fees are collectible.
Most of the recent catalog deals are driven by the short term need for wealth funds to pay through a 5 - 6% return on capital to their limited partners. Those VCs don't care that they won't later be able to unload the catalogs for a profit or that their terminal value will be shit compared to the purchase price. As long as the VCs can meet the return on capital benchmark they promised their limited partners over a predetermined time frame, the price doesn't matter. This ponzi-like syndrome will continue until they find a better cash-flowing asset class.
The motivation for labels paying uneconomic prices is different. When they buy the assets of a signed artist, they have unaccounted for royalties -- over many years -- that can be applied internally to reduce the nominal price. They get the benefit of no longer needing to apply internal human and financial resources toward future accountings. Universal overpaid for Dylan for the cache (and loss leader to entice other sellers) and to embarrass Sony. Sony responded by overpaying for Paul Simon to avoid further embarrassment and, now again, with Springsteen.
Jody Dunitz
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From: Simon Toulson-Clarke
Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
30x is crazy good, mostly I’m hearing between 16 and 22x.
I’ve been approached about my own catalogue and I’ve been working out the figures; with a small handful of 80s songs that continue to be played on radio it has value, though of course nothing like the big stars of that classic era such as the Boss and Dylan.
But let’s, for sake of argument, say that an artists’ performance and mechanical royalties can raise 20x their annual income as a lump sum.
So £100k pa could raise £2m. Sounds good...it IS good, particularly if the lump sum can transform your life (buy a nice house you can leave to your kids, build a better studio, whatever).
But 2 things about that: I have an 18 year old daughter who would get my royalties for another 70 years after my death. Let’s say I live another 25 years, that’s 95 years of income sold for 20. Maybe not so good.
Sure, the annual earnings may decline even though they’ve plateaued for 30 years. But they may also perk up and increase driven by a timely film or advertising sync which earns beaucoup sponduliks.
It’s a gamble either way.
But given that Covid has hit licensing income for writers in the last couple of years and would-be investors use the last 5 years to calculate the capital sum it looks a good deal for them at 5% pa. cos there isn’t much other than bricks and mortar consistently doing more, and 5% is about average for UK property’s annual value increase. Most other investments, if security is a concern, are struggling to make 2% or less.
Add to this the fact that the writer or rights holders’ slice of streaming, if it’s gonna go anywhere it’s gonna go up in the next few years - we may even inherit our old masters and the rights, then you may be looking at the very best moment for Corps and investment companies who are capital-liquid to invest in older song catalogues.
I’m still scratching my head about it I don’t mind telling you...
Very Best Wishes,
Simon TC
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From: Olivier Chastain
Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
You’re sadness about Bruce and Neil selling is misplaced in my opinion. You’re forgetting a key aspect which is succession. Not everyone is equipped to manage these legacies. Is Jon Landau going to continue managing it? He is the same age as Bruce and has worked his ass off to get him where he is - he deserves a break ;-) Bruce’s kids? My experience is that heirs are rarely interested in managing their parent’s legacy and tend to do more harm than good. Of course, the family could just keep doing admin deals for the publishing and licensing/distribution deals for the record side. Not bad solutions but it will not provide the catalog with the focus that a high price buyer will bring (either by choice or necessity).
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From: Timothy 'Sully' Sullivan
Hi Bob,
I think Sony wildly overpaid on the Springsteen deal.
My rationale: with The Beatles, Sinatra, Zeppelin, Dylan, the Stones- heck, even ABBA- their music passes along from one generation to the next. There are tons of people of all ages into them. Even very young ones.
I don't personally know one person under 50 who's into Bruce Springsteen.
I'd be willing to wager that for the under 40 demo, he's essentially unknown. With the name recognition of Millard Fillmore, or probably less.
Meaning the future usage values will be lesser each passing year.
When the boomers are essentially gone as a consumer force (less than a decade away...!) the value of the catalog will collapse. It will take Sony decades, if ever to recoup on this one.
Unless they have some very powerful and currently not visible tricks up their sleeve.... unlikely.
Or if there is some Springsteen youth cult developing in Asia I'm unaware of.
The upside (and downside) of big corporate money: it belongs to someone else. Execs spend it foolishly all the time.
Like this.
All just imho of course,
Sully
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Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
Bob, Hank Ballard who wrote “The Twist”, lived at my house for the last year and a half of his life. I produced his last album. Naturally, i got to know him well and heard all the stories. He sold his publishing rights for “ The Twist” for 5 grand in 1969. He kept his writers share but obviously gave up a lot.
Peter Miller
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From: Timothy Hadley
Subject: Re: The Springsteen Sale
Dear Bob,
Very nicely stated. Here's another wrinkle--Buddy Holly died at 22 b/c someone was stealing from him and despite him selling millions of records, he couldn't make ends meet. So he booked an Upper Midwest tour in the middle of winter, on a bus with a broken heater, and then decided to fly to Fargo instead of ride 366 miles on a freezing bus. He wasn't getting paid properly, but instead of negotiating with his record label, he just went off on his own on a tour that was one bad idea after another--until disaster struck.
So it's not always just about money. Sometimes it's about people's lives.
TY for an excellent article.
Tim
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